60 day transfer prohibited - is GoDaddy violating the ICANN policy?

Could someone please clarify the 60 day Transfer Prohibited policy?

The reason I ask is because GoDaddy claims that since I updated my contact information on my domain, that resets the 60 day transfer prohibited policy set forth by ICANN.

GoDaddy has denied a transfer because they claim that ICANN has approved GoDaddy's policy on this written below:

Upon completion of the change of Registrant of the Domain Name, Go Daddy will send an email to the Current Registrant confirming the change of Registrant contemplated by this Agreement. If the Current Registrant has any objection to the change of Registrant whatsoever, the Current Registrant assumes all responsibility for responding to such email and notifying Go Daddy of any objection within fifteen (15) calendar days. The Current Registrant agrees to release, indemnify and hold Go Daddy harmless for any issues that arise as a result of an improper change of Registrant, whether intentionally or unintentionally initiated, whether by the Current Registrant or others acting on its behalf. The domain name may not be transferred to another registrar within 60 days of the completion of the change of Registrant transaction (the "Transfer Prohibition Period"). In the event the domain name is subject to another change of Registrant within the Transfer Prohibition Period, the 60 day Transfer Prohibition Period will begin again upon completion of the subsequent change of Registrant transaction.

Registrant transaction explained by GoDaddy means changing of Registrant contact information...?

My domain name hasn't changed, the registrant hasn't changed and the it's been with GoDaddy for a long time. Why is it when I updated my mailing address, (not my email) GoDaddy has the right to force me to renew with them. They've also claimed that when I renew, this will also reset the 60 day thing.

Here is the ICANN policy on this:

A registrar may legitimately deny a transfer request in certain limited circumstances, as follows:

* Evidence of fraud
* Uniform Domain-Name Dispute Resolution Policy (UDRP) action
* Court order
* Reasonable dispute over the identity of the person authorizing the transfer
* Domain name is on hold due to payment owed for a previous registration period
* Express written objection from the domain name holder
* Domain name is in 'Lock' status (Registrars must provide a readily accessible and reasonable means for name holders to remove the lock status. Contact your registrar for assistance.)
* Domain name is within 60 days of initial registration
* Domain name is within 60 days of a previous transfer

Comments

It seems he is not the only one...

I was not allowed to transfer a domain name to another registrar, as GoDaddy's so called 'tech staff' a. initially had me to prove I am not an elephant and then b. simply ignoring me (the 'forwarded' the issue to their so called 'transfer dept' without any further information about how to contact them or anything).

I submitted a complaint with ICANN but I still have received no answer (do you really use those e-mail addresses or not?).

It seems to me that GoDaddy is going under (given they are so desperate in getting roughly $10 that they won't allow transferring a domain until you renew with them).

And by the way, what is the point of ICANN making policies, if it is unable to force registars to comply with them?

Sincerely,

P. Loutraris

Scroll down

P. Loutraris,

Can I refer you to the answer further down in this thread wrt GoDaddy and transfers.

When did you file a complaint with ICANN? To which address? And have you heard anything back - an email acknowledging your email for example?

As for your assertion that GoDaddy is "going under" on the basis that they wish to retain customers for domains that they paid money to take over - well, I think it's fair to say that that is verging on nonsense.

I will be asking ICANN's compliance team how they can make their work more visible as it is clear that at the moment it isn't visible enough.

 

Cheers

Kieren McCarthy

General manager of public participation, ICANN

Read again!

GoDaddy's answer is pointless as the domain I refer to was not acquired by any other company; it was originally registered with them and I simply wanted to take it away from them, whenever I choose (not to mention that thanks to their ignorance the domain name is now expired).

My complaint was sent on July 20th, to transfer-questions@icann.org, however nobody has replied or verified receiving it so far.

And let me comment that if ICANN's compliance team work is not visible to the domain owners, it certainly is not visible to the registrars either. That's why some of them believe that they are free to do business as they see fit (and most profitably).

Thank you

Sincerely,

P. Loutraris

Compliance

Hi P. Loutraris,

I am not surprised you have not received the response you appear to be after if you sent an email to "transfer-questions" - which by its name makes its apparent that it is not the appropriate place to make complaints but to ask questions.

If you feel GoDaddy is breaching its Registrar Accreditation Agreement with ICANN, then you should contact the ICANN compliance team. Its head is Stacy Burnette and you can email her at firstname.lastname@icann.org.

You are wrong in your assertion that if domain name owners are not aware of the compliance's team operations then the registrars are equally unaware. In fact, the opposite is true. The registrars are only too aware of ICANN's compliance team but unsurprisingly do not feel the need to inform their customers that either they or their industry break the rules occasionally.

Hope this helps.

 

Kieren McCarthy

General manager of public participation, ICANN

GoDaddy's response

Thank you for contacting Online Support.

According to ICANN regulation, a domain name cannot be transferred within 60 days of registration or prior transfer. Company policy restricts the transfer of domains within 60 days of renewal or change of registrant. We apologize for any inconvenience.

Please let us know if we can assist you in any other way.

Regards,
Bob B.
Online Support Technician

Now, GoDaddy first starts out with citing the ICANN policy and then creates their own policy to override that of ICANN.

So taking care of this with the Registrar is difficult when ICANN policy isn't worth the paper it's written on due to the inability for ICANN to enforce such a policy.

Needless to say, I've filed a complaint with Internic (which is generally useless), and I've also sent Stacy an email regarding this. And I've also sent GoDaddy a response to try to solve this with GoDaddy as you suggested. Here is my response to GoDaddy:

You quoted the ICANN Policy. "According to ICANN regulation, a domain name cannot be transferred within 60 days of registration or prior transfer."

Here is the exact policy in which you are referring:

___________________________________________
3. Obligations of the Registrar of Record
A Registrar of Record can choose independently to confirm the intent of the Registered Name Holder when a notice of a pending transfer is received from the Registry. The Registrar of Record must do so in a manner consistent with the standards set forth in this agreement pertaining to Gaining Registrars. In order to ensure that the form of the request employed by the Registrar of Record is substantially administrative and informative in nature and clearly provided to the Transfer Contact for the purpose of verifying the intent of the Transfer Contact, the Registrar of Record must use the FOA.
The FOA shall be communicated in English, and any dispute arising out of a transfer request, shall be conducted in the English language. Registrars may choose to communicate with the Transfer Contact in additional languages. However, the Registrar choosing to exercise such option is responsible for the accuracy and completeness of the translation into such additional non-English version of the FOA. Further, such non-English communications must follow the processes and procedures set forth in this policy. This includes but is not limited to the requirement that no Registrar shall add any additional information to the FOA used to obtain the consent of the Transfer Contact in the case of a transfer request.
This requirement does not preclude the Registrar of Record from marketing to its existing customers through separate communications.
The FOA should be sent by the Registrar of Record to the Transfer Contact as soon as operationally possible, but must be sent not later than twenty-four (24) hours after receiving the transfer request from the Registry Operator.
Failure by the Registrar of Record to respond within five (5) calendar days to a notification from the Registry regarding a transfer request will result in a default "approval" of the transfer.
In the event that a Transfer Contact listed in the Whois has not confirmed their request to transfer with the Registrar of Record and the Registrar of Record has not explicitly denied the transfer request, the default action will be that the Registrar of Record must allow the transfer to proceed.
Upon denying a transfer request for any of the following reasons, the Registrar of Record must provide the Registered Name Holder and the potential Gaining Registrar with the reason for denial. The Registrar of Record may deny a transfer request only in the following specific instances:

1. Evidence of fraud
2. UDRP action
3. Court order by a court of competent jurisdiction
4. Reasonable dispute over the identity of the Registered Name Holder or Administrative Contact
5. No payment for previous registration period (including credit card charge-backs) if the domain name is past its expiration date or for previous or current registration periods if the domain name has not yet expired. In all such cases, however, the domain name must be put into "Registrar Hold" status by the Registrar of Record prior to the denial of transfer.
6. Express written objection to the transfer from the Transfer Contact. (e.g. - email, fax, paper document or other processes by which the Transfer Contact has expressly and voluntarily objected through opt-in means)
7. A domain name was already in “lock status” provided that the Registrar provides a readily accessible and reasonable means for the Registered Name Holder to remove the lock status.
8. A domain name is in the first 60 days of an initial registration period.
9. A domain name is within 60 days (or a lesser period to be determined) after being transferred (apart from being transferred back to the original Registrar in cases where both Registrars so agree and/or where a decision in the dispute resolution process so directs).

Instances when the requested change of Registrar may not be denied include, but are not limited to:

* Nonpayment for a pending or future registration period
* No response from the Registered Name Holder or Administrative Contact.
* Domain name in Registrar Lock Status, unless the Registered Name Holder is provided with the reasonable opportunity and ability to unlock the domain name prior to the Transfer Request.
* Domain name registration period time constraints, other than during the first 60 days of initial registration or during the first 60 days after a registrar transfer.
* General payment defaults between Registrar and business partners / affiliates in cases where the Registered Name Holder for the domain in question has paid for the registration.

The Registrar of Record has other mechanisms available to collect payment from the Registered Name Holder that are independent from the Transfer process. Hence, in the event of a dispute over payment, the Registrar of Record must not employ transfer processes as a mechanism to secure payment for services from a Registered Name Holder. Exceptions to this requirement are as follows:

(i) In the case of non-payment for previous registration period(s) if the transfer is requested after the expiration date, or
(ii) In the case of non-payment of the current registration period, if transfer is requested before the expiration date.

So, in simplified terms, ICANN is saying that you cannot deny a transfer if the domain name has not been newly registered or transferred to a new registrar within the last 60 days.

My domain falls into neither category under the ICANN policy. Therefore, please release my domain name for transfer as noted in the ICANN transfer policy.

Thank you!

_________________________________________

I will post the response from GoDaddy once I get it. It's obvious they don't care what ICANN says otherwise they would be following the transfer policy written. Of course if ICANN just writes policy for the sake of writing them, then who cares anyway, a registrar can transact business in any fashion they see fit... This is not safe for domain registrants and these policies need enforced otherwise we should put all the policy in file 13.

GoDaddy is abusing this system because they can. Because ICANN lets them. It's no wonder ICANN is tied up in courts with lawsuits... any organization that writes policy and doesn't enforce them is bound to be tied up in the courts with lawsuits. Matter of fact, once I receive these responses and it comes to a point where I can't take it any further, I too may file a lawsuit naming GoDaddy under the auspices of ICANN so both will be named and both will have to consume resources to answer a complaint that should have been dealt with amicably from the beginning.

Let's see now what ICANN is going to do and also what GoDaddy is going to do. The burden rests on ICANN because GoDaddy is just doing exactly what ICANN lets them do.

Thanks Kieren for keeping up with this. You wanted public participation, you are going to get it. :)

Take Care!

Supervisor Responds from GoDaddy!

Thank you for taking time to contact Online Support. As previously stated we are not in a position to remove the transfer hold on the domain name. As the contact information for several sections of the domain name contacts were modified we will not be able to allow the transfer. We apologize for any inconvenience this issue may cause.

Please feel free to contact us with any other comments or concerns.

Regards,
Chris P.
Online Support Supervisor

Is there an answer?

Kieren,

You said that you would answer this. I need to know who writes the policies... ICANN or the Registrars. Clearly GoDaddy in this case is violating the ICANN policy of the transfer prohibit policy. Who is enforcing these?

From what I understand GoDaddy has done this for a long time and it's not legitimate. So, what's ICANN going to do about it?

I've filed a complaint and received no answer. I've posted this question on the public participation site with no answer. Why doesn't ICANN enforce and outline their own policies?

Let's get on with it, this is an issue that should be dealt with accordingly and not shoved under a rug like the Registerfly situation. If there's a need for the ICANN organization at all, then there's a need for ICANN to clearly define the policies of the Registrar and to aggressively enforce those policies.

I would like an answer to this as promised.

Answer

Funny you should ask. I have an answer. Although I should like to point out that a petulant posting such as the one above is not the way to go about following up a request.

The response: 

-----------------------------------------------------------------------

Some registrants have reported that they are unable to transfer domain names that were bulk-transferred from RegisterFly to Go Daddy, and that the reason provided by Go Daddy was that the registration was transferred within the previous 60 days.

As clarification, the Inter-Registrar Transfer Policy <http://www.icann.org/transfers/policy-12jul04.htm> allows Go Daddy (just like all registrars) to deny a transfer-out on the basis that the registration was transferred within the previous 60 days. (See Section A.3 (9).) This provision of the Transfer Policy does not distinguish between prior transfers that were requested by the registrant or part of a bulk-transfer. Please note that the Transfer Policy does not require Go Daddy to deny the transfers for 60 days, but it is a fairly common practice within the industry and not unreasonable given the circumstances.

Accordingly, Go Daddy may deny transfers-out for names that were bulk-transferred within the prior 60 days from Registerfly, although it is not required to do so.

 

 

You missed my Question....

Ok, please let me rephrase the question because it's obvious the heart of the question has been overlooked and that could be because I didn't explain it well enough.

Let me clarify two things. First, nothing about Registerfly was mentioned in the question above about GoDaddy and the 60 day transfer prohibit policy. Registerfly domain names that were bulk transferred to GoDaddy have nothing to do with the topic. Second, I've stated that there was no such transfer that took place between any registrars. Now a petulant posting is sometimes due to the fact that questions aren't being answered and when they are, it has nothing to do with the question posted.

For the record and for a clear understanding on what GoDaddy is doing...

I have had a domain, me, as the Registrant with GoDaddy for better than a year. No transfer, No push, just a .biz domain name. So, I login to my GoDaddy account and proceed to update my whois information. The whois is reading and incorrect P.O. Box but everything else is ok. So, I update my whois information making the changes of the P.O. Box as well as the city and zip code. My Registrant name, email address and everything else remains in tact. Just like I were to do at any Registrar, I select the 'change all' selection.

Now, in changing this whois information, GoDaddy is saying that they have a right to reset the 60 Day transfer prohibit period. They are telling me I can't transfer a domain name from them because I updated the Registrant whois address.

Well, as you so politely posted the link to the policy, it states:

  • A domain name is in the first 60 days of an initial registration period.
  • A domain name is within 60 days (or a lesser period to be determined) after being transferred (apart from being transferred back to the original Registrar in cases where both Registrars so agree and/or where a decision in the dispute resolution process so directs).

Instances when the requested change of Registrar may not be denied include, but are not limited to:

  • Nonpayment for a pending or future registration period
  • No response from the Registered Name Holder or Administrative Contact.
  • Domain name in Registrar Lock Status, unless the Registered Name Holder is provided with the reasonable opportunity and ability to unlock the domain name prior to the Transfer Request.
  • Domain name registration period time constraints, other than during the first 60 days of initial registration or during the first 60 days after a registrar transfer

So how is GoDaddy to prevent a legitimate transfer?

Now the question is rather simple, how can GoDaddy reset this 60 day transfer prohibit policy to trap domain names when the domain name in question does not fall into the 60 day transfer prohibit policy.

To clarify, my domain was not transferred within the last 60 days, nor was it purchased within the last 60 days. This is a 3+ year old domain name.

How can GoDaddy enforce a policy that is against the policy of ICANN.

I urge you to read the policy and re-read the entire post. We have registrars out here making their own policies and GoDaddy is an example of one of them.

.............. Now that we've read and understand the question and the answer is in black and white in the ICANN policy, what is ICANN going to do about the current violations to the ICANN policy that is forcing domain owners to renew with GoDaddy?

Kieren, I know you are doing your best to make this public participation site work and your effort doesn't go unnoticed. Thank you for your efforts and thanks in advance for digging into this for me. This isn't a complaint that needs millions of complaints filed or lawsuits filed or anything else. It's an ICANN policy that ICANN needs to enforce with it's registrars.

Thank you!

Second answer

Okay, this seemed to me to be a definite case for ICANN's compliance unit so I have directed our contractual compliance director Stacy Burnette to your comment.

She appeared to know what the situation was so if you are interested in contacting her directly with more information, she is liable to be of much greater use than I am. Her email is firstname.lastname@icann.org.

Stacy will look into it if you can supply her with precise details but she also recommended that the best course of action was to sort it out with GoDaddy directly.

I know I've said it a number of times in the past, but it is worth reiterating: ICANN the organisation is simply not in the position to act as the consumer watchdog for domains. ICANN is a purposefully designed light-touch organisation that acts on breaches of contract with it, rather than a wider watchdog role that takes complaints from individuals and then uses its powers to sort the matter out.

If you think ICANN should be in that role and be given greater powers, then you will have to start lobbying support for that across the Internet community. You could for example raise it at an ICANN meeting (the next one is in Los Angeles in October). Or you could join one of ICANN's supporting organisations or advisory committee and raise it within them.

I realise this doesn't sort out your current predicament and I'm sorry for that.

 

Kieren

 

Thanks

Thanks Kieren for the follow-up. I understand ICANNs role. I also understand that ICANN has written the policy for the Domain Registrars. So, why do we have an ICANN to write policies but have no way of enforcing them? What's the point in having the policies?

If ICANN and supporting organizations write the policy for the Registrar accreditation, then to be an accredited registrar shouldn't one have to be under the direct supervision of the policy writing organization?... which is ICANN. This seems a bit confusing to me.

If ICANN policies on domain names are unenforceable and ICANN doesn't have staff to enforce these policies, just tell everyone before writing more policies. This is like putting the cart before the horse and needs some serious thought and action rather than more meaningless transfer policies.

Those are my thoughts on it....

I agree with you

You are, of course, right. And the answer as to why there are issues like this is complex. I will outline it from my perspective and invite anyone who thinks I have got it wrong to correct me. The most important point to note though is that it *is* changing and we would expect issues such as this to be increasingly few.

The reasons that registrars are not fearful of an ICANN that will come pounding down their door if they breach their terms are several. For one, that is not how ICANN works. With the arrival of Stacy and with this RegisterFly issue, ICANN is taking a firmer hand, but since 1998, ICANN has always been a very hands-off organisation - one that oversees technical aspects and which believes in the power of market forces to drive the Internet.

And those market forces have been unbelievably successful in the expansion and efficiency of the registrar system. The level of specialist technology that exists within the domain name system is extraordinary. Many believe, quite rightly to my mind, that if ICANN had ever attempted to define or control the market in the early days, we would have nothing like the healthy market there is now.

So, historically, ICANN has always stood back from taking an aggressive approach and has instead always worked issues through with people. ICANN *has* revoked a number of registrars' accreditations in the past - and that nuclear option has always proved pretty effective at getting people to act honestly. When registrar have gone under - as they have many times in the past - the market mechanisms have simply picked up the domains and things have continued on.

One last quick point before I get onto my main point. ICANN's resources until very recently were limited and eaten up with a number of large and difficult court cases. The organisation simply didn't have the staff or the time to embark on a proactive and/or more aggressive approach to registrars. You cannot start such an approach and then let it drop - you either do it, or you don't. There is also the issue that registrars supply a significant amount of ICANN's budget so ICANN would have to be sure of its ground and of the benefits of changing its approach before it started picking registrars up on minor infringements.

The point though, as everyone concedes, is that the market has matured and things are no longer the same as they were. Issues like RegisterFly threaten to undermine confidence in the registrar system - and so other registrars can see the value in having ICANN be stricter. At the same time, new markets worth large sums of money have grown up, putting pressure of policies and rules because slight infringements now come with a clear financial advantage.

ICANN has recognised this and has responded accordingly. Stacy Burnette and Connie Brown have been working very hard on the problem and they are already making a difference. ICANN doesn't shout it from the rooftops (although maybe we should) but if you catch Stacy's presentations at ICANN meetings, she makes it very plain that ICANN is clamping down on bad practice and proactively chasing up companies that are infringing the rules.

So, in conclusion really, the answer is: it is not perfect but it is getting better and it will continue to get better still.

I hope this answers at least some of your concerns.

 

Kieren

 

 

Status of the Proposed Advisory?

What is the status of this Proposed Advisory, to stop this practice?

http://www.icann.org/announcements/proposed-advisory-19sep07.htm

Network Solutions is STILL blocking domain transfers, if the domain owner updates their contact info, even though the advisory clearly states "A registrant change to Whois information is not a valid basis for denying a transfer request." I suspect GoDaddy hasn't stopped doing this either.

What is the next step, after hearing public comments on this proposed advisory?

- Scott

which registrar doesn't apply a lock on whois update?

Does anyone know of a registrar that doesn't reset the 60 day clock on a change of whois information? Network Solutions has held be hostage since the middle of December because of the whois update issue.